| Show Transcripts Dan Rather Reports Episode Number: 229 Episode Title: Did Texas Execute Innocent Men? Description: Dan Rather Reports examines the cases of two convicted murderers in Texas who were sentenced to death after they were identified by eyewitnesses at trial. Those identifications are now in doubt years after the men were executed. Also: a look at the latest in aviation--very light jets. TEASE: DAN RATHER (VOICE OVER) TONIGHT, EXECUTIONS AND QUESTIONS, YEARS AFTER TWO TEXAS MEN ARE PUT TO DEATH, REGRETS FROM SOME OF THOSE WHO HELPED INFLICT THE ULTIMATE PUNISHMENT. SAM MILLSAP, FORMER DISTRICT ATTORNEY I look back at my decision to prosecute Ruben Cantu for capital murder and I consider that decision today to have been a flawed decision. RATHER (VOICE OVER) WHAT IS THE THRESHOLD OF REASONABLE DOUBT? ROSE RHOTON Carlos had always said from the beginning and to the end that he never committed this crime over and over and over. PILOT All right sir, you ready to go? RATHER Ready to go, let's do it RATHER (VOICE OVER) AND AIR TAXIS COULD A REVOLUTION IN THE WAY WE BUILD PLANES LEAD TO A DRASTIC CHANGE IN OUR SKIES? VERN RABURN It's a very high quality aircraft where we've set new standards in reliability but it's also about half the price of the nearest competitor and so you get a lot of airplane for not much money. RATHER (VOICE OVER) TONIGHT, ON DAN RATHER REPORTS. DEATH PENALTY: RATHER (ON CAMERA) GOOD EVENING, FROM AUSTIN, TEXAS. OUR NATION HAS HAD A LONG AND AT TIMES HEATED DEBATE ON THE DEATH PENALTY. IT'S A DEBATE THAT HAS TRADITIONALLY BEEN ARGUED ON MORAL AND CONSTITUTIONAL GROUNDS. BUT, DNA EVIDENCE, WHICH HAS NOW EXONERATED AT LEAST 200 PRISONERS, SOME ON DEATH ROW, HAS RAISED NEW QUESTIONS ABOUT THE GUILT OF THOSE EXECUTED IN THIS COUNTRY, QUESTIONS THAT ALSO EXIST IN CASES FOR WHICH THERE IS NO DNA EVIDENCE AVAILABLE. HAVE INNOCENT PEOPLE BEEN EXECUTED? THIS IS A QUESTION THAT'S BEEN SURFACING MORE FREQUENTLY HERE IN MY HOME STATE WHERE, POLLS HAVE SHOWN THAT THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF TEXANS SUPPORT THE DEATH PENALTY. SINCE 1976, WHEN THE U.S. SUPREME COURT REINSTATED CAPITAL PUNISHMENT, TEXAS HAS EXECUTED MORE CONVICTS THAN ANY OTHER STATE - MORE THAN ONE- THIRD OF ALL EXECUTIONS IN THE NATION. RATHER (VOICE OVER) TONIGHT'S REPORT GIVES YOU A LOOK AT TWO TEXAS MURDER CASES THAT ENDED IN EXECUTION. BOTH MEN WERE TRIED AND CONVICTED AND EXECUTED ON THE BASIS OF EVIDENCE THAT IS NOW, YEARS LATER, BEING CALLED INTO QUESTION. OUR FIRST STORY TAKES US BACK TO SAN ANTONIO IN THE MID-1980'S, TO A TOUGH NEIGHBORHOOD ON THE CITY'S SOUTH SIDE. SEVENTEEN YEAR OLD RUBEN CANTU WAS ARRESTED AND EVENTUALLY CONVICTED AND EXECUTED FOR A BRUTAL ROBBERY-MURDER THAT TOOK THE LIFE OF ONE MAN AND LEFT ANOTHER BARELY ALIVE. DAYS AFTER HE WAS FOUND GUILTY, CANTU WROTE A LETTER TO THE RESIDENTS OF SAN ANTONIO. HE STATED, “MY NAME IS RUBEN M. CANTU I GOT TO THE NINTH GRADE AND I HAVE BEEN FRAMED IN A CAPITAL MURDER CASE." TODAY, SAM MILLSAP, THE FORMER DISTRICT ATTORNEY WHO SOUGHT THE DEATH PENALTY FOR CANTU, BELIEVES HE MADE A MISTAKE. SAM MILLSAP, FORMER DISTRICT ATTORNEY I look back at the – at my decision to prosecute Ruben Cantu for capital murder, and I consider that decision today to have been a flawed decision. RATHER Is it too strong to say that you've been haunted by it? MILLSAP Haunted is not too strong a word. There's nothing that's more frightening than the prospect of being responsible for the prosecution of someone who turns out to be innocent. BENNY CANTU My brother was young. You know, he wasn't married, had any kids. He coulda had all that. You know? What everybody else has, a family, he coulda had all that. But it was taken away, just like that. RATHER (VOICE OVER) BENNY CANTU, THE YOUNGEST OF CANTU'S FOUR SIBLINGS, FORGED A CLOSE BOND WITH HIS BROTHER AT AN EARLY AGE. CANTU I remember- he used to get mad because I used to sleep, and I used to have to put my foot on his leg so I could feel him there, you know, feel that he was there. RATHER (VOICE OVER) RUBEN CANTU SPENT HIS TEEN YEARS LIVING WITH HIS FATHER IN A TRAILER PARK, IN A COMMUNITY PLAGUED BY DRUG DEALING, SMUGGLING, AND POVERTY. ALTHOUGH KNOWN TO BE QUIET TO A FAULT, BY AGE 15 RUBEN CANTU WAS SKIPPING SCHOOL AND STEALING CARS FOR JOY RIDES. DAVID GARZA Ruben was quiet. He wasn't the kind of person that really would provoke anybody. He was never like that. RATHER (VOICE OVER) DAVID GARZA, AN ACCOMPLICE IN THE MURDER THAT LED TO RUBEN CANTU'S EXECUTION, WAS CANTU'S BEST FRIEND. GARZA Me and Ruben were always together. We, I mean, we'd go everywhere. Swimming, to the rivers, creeks. And you know, go bike riding. Go to high school dances. And everywhere, we were always together. RATHER (VOICE OVER) UNTIL 1985, CANTU HAD NEVER BEEN CONVICTED OF A CRIME. BUT, THAT YEAR, HE WAS FOUND GUILTY OF MURDER AND SENTENCED TO DEATH - PRIMARILY ON THE TESTIMONY OF A SINGLE EYEWITNESS: CONSTRUCTION WORKER JUAN MORENO. ANDREW CARUTHERS We feel that the whole process was tainted. They should've reversed it on appeal. RATHER (VOICE OVER) NOW-JUDGE ANDREW CARUTHERS, CANTU'S DEFENSE ATTORNEY AT THE TIME, DID EVERYTHING HE COULD TO SAVE CANTU'S LIFE. CARUTHERS There were no fingerprints. They was no DNA. There was no blood. There was nothing to attach Ruben to this case except Juan Moreno's identification. MILLSAP I had too much confidence in eyewitness testimony. And if I had it to do over again - I would never prosecute a case as a capital murder case based on the testimony of a single eyewitness. RATHER (VOICE OVER) AS A RESULT OF NEW EVIDENCE REVEALED IN A HOUSTON CHRONICLE INVESTIGATION, LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIALS IN SAN ANTONIO RE-EXAMINED THE CANTU CASE. BUT FORMER POLICE SERGEANT BILL EWELL, WHO SUPERVISED THE CANTU CASE, HAS NO REGRETS ABOUT HOW HE HANDLED THE HOMICIDE INVESTIGATION. BILL EWELL I'm not second-guessing myself I mean, I feel that we did- you know, that we made the case, and it was a good case, and- you know, unfortunately it didn't result as- you know, someone was executed for it. I'm not sure I'm real happy about that, but that's- you know, that's the law. RATHER (VOICE OVER) RECENTLY, QUESTIONS ABOUT CANTU'S POSSIBLE INNOCENCE HAVE TAKEN ON A NEW URGENCY. JUAN MORENO, THE SURVIVING VICTIM, HAS RECANTED HIS IDENTIFICATION OF CANTU AS THE KILLER. AND DAVID GARZA, WHO WAS SILENT FOR TWO DECADES, TOLD HIS VERSION OF THE CRIME FOR THE FIRST TIME TO GRAND JURY INVESTIGATORS. GARZA I mean, at first, to me, it was just something I couldn't do about it. Ruben was dead. So, I didn't figure, I mean, what the hell would I want to be talking about it? I- I can't do nothing to bring Ruben back. RATHER (VOICE OVER) DAVID GARZA WAS 15 WHEN THE MURDER OCCURRED. HE ACCEPTED A PLEA BARGAIN IN 1985 AND WAS SENTENCED TO 20 YEARS FOR HIS ROLE. HE WAS BACK IN PRISON FOR PAROLE VIOLATION. GARZA After almost twenty years later, you know, I told them my involvement and how- how the murders happened. RATHER (VOICE OVER) IN GARZA'S VERSION OF EVENTS, THE PLAN TO COMMIT A CRIME ORIGINATED WITH HIM. GARZA That night, I had went over to Ruben's house. And his dad told me that he wasn't around. And when I was leaving his house, I ended up running into an individual while he was walking towards Ruben's. And I asked him if, you know, he wanted to do a burglary, you know, across the street. And at that time, he told me to wait there. And he came back with a rifle. RATHER (VOICE OVER) DAVID GARZA WOULD NOT NAME ON CAMERA THE MAN HE NOW CLAIMS WAS HIS ACCOMPLICE, BUT HE DID IDENTIFY HIM IN A SIGNED STATEMENT. ON THE NIGHT OF THE MURDER 23 YEARS AGO, GARZA AND HIS ACCOMPLICE BROKE INTO A HOUSE LOOKING FOR DRUGS. CONSTRUCTION WORKERS JUAN MORENO AND PEDRO GOMEZ WERE SLEEPING ON THE FLOOR INSIDE, TO PROTECT IT FROM BEING VANDALIZED. GARZA I hit the first one over the head, trying to knock him out, instead of-- so nothing else would happen. But it didn't happen that way, you know. He sat up in bed. And at that time, he went-- under his pillow was a gun. And at that time, when he went for the pillow, that's when the person that was with me shot Pedro Gomez. RATHER (VOICE OVER) AS GARZA AND HIS ACCOMPLICE FLED, 19-YEAR-OLD JUAN MORENO ESCAPED TO A PICKUP TRUCK OUTSIDE. WHEN POLICE ARRIVED, THEY FOUND GOMEZ DEAD AND MORENO BLEEDING PROFUSELY FROM 9 GUNSHOT WOUNDS. MORENO BLURTED OUT IN SANISH THAT HE HAD BEEN SHOT BY TWO NEIGHBORHOOD TEENS. WHILE MORENO WAS RECOVERING, POLICE VISITED HIM TWICE. WHEN THEY SHOWED HIM A PHOTO LINEUP, HE DID NOT IDENTIFY HIS ASSAILANTS. MEANTIME, POLICE HAD SEPARATELY QUESTIONED TWO LOCAL TEENS, RUBEN CANTU AND DAVID GARZA. GARZA I went to the police department. And they asked me questions. And I denied it. And I ended up finding out by Ruben that they're questioning him for the murders. And ‘I'm like, well, why would they ask you? I mean, why are they questioning you? I mean, you didn't have anything to do with it.’ RATHER (VOICE OVER) FOR NEARLY FOUR MONTHS, POLICE MADE NO ARRESTS. THEN, IN MARCH 1985, RUBEN CANTU SHOT AN OFF- DUTY POLICE OFFICER NAMED JOE DE LA LUZ DURING A FIGHT AT A POOL HALL. WITNESSES SAID CANTU FIRED HIS GUN FIRST, BUT THE RECORD ALSO SHOWS THAT DE LA LUZ, WHO SURVIVED, HAD BEEN DRINKING AND WAS ARMED WITH TWO GUNS. CHARGES AGAINST CANTU FOR THE POOL HALL SHOOTING WERE EVENTUALLY DROPPED. ONE DAY LATER, SERGEANT BILL EWELL - A CLOSE FRIEND OF DE LA LUZ - FOCUSED HIS ATTENTION ON CANTU. EWELL That's when I recalled that-- they-- you know, this person that shot Joe, he lived directly across the street from where we had this-- previous homicide and attempted murder and robbery. RATHER (VOICE OVER) OFFICERS EWELL AND DE LA LUZ BOTH HAD A HISTORY OF DISCIPLINARY PROBLEMS IN THE SAN ANTONIO POLICE DEPARTMENT. ON FIVE OCCASIONS DE LA LUZ WAS SUSPENDED FROM DUTY. MILLSAP What is just as clear as it can be from the timeline, is that Cantu falls off the radar screen. The shooting in the pool hall takes place. And the very next day-- Cantu is public enemy #1, again, in connection with the murder that had taken place three months earlier. RATHER (VOICE OVER) ALTHOUGH JUAN MORENO, THE SURVIVING WITNESS, HAD FAILED TO IDENTIFY CANTU MONTHS EARLIER, THE DAY AFTER DE LA LUZ WAS SHOT, SERGEANT EWELL SENT AN OFFICER TO SEE MORENO. MILLSAP You know they go back out to-- to Moreno's house for the second photo id. Again, Moreno says, I don't see the guy that shot me. And then they-- two days later, two days after the shooting in the pool hall, this is after the Cantu connection has been quiet for three-and-a-half months. They pull Moreno into the police department. They tell him, at some point, before he makes the ID that Cantu shot a police officer. They show him another set of photographs with Cantu's picture. And-- and-- and he fingers Cantu. Finally. EWELL There may have been 20 lineups that he may have been shown during the-- you know, over a course of time, you know, a period of time. So I-- I couldn't say-- exactly when-- Cantu's picture was inserted in there. But I believe it to be probably right after Joe was shot. RATHER That off-duty police officer who was shot, was a very good friend of the lead homicide detective working the Cantu case. Question: is that ethical? MILLSAP Well, no it's not. And I think it's fair to say, that if-- if the shooting four months later in the poll hall had not occurred-- Ruben Cantu would have never gotten back on the police department's radar screen in connection with the murder case that led to his execution. That's my belief. RATHER (VOICE OVER) IN 2004, INVESTIGATOR RICHARD REYNA WAS HIRED BY THE NAACP LEGAL DEFENSE FUND TO LOOK INTO THE CANTU CASE. RICHARD REYNA Sometimes when you zero in on a person, you don't want to hear anymore. You decide you've got this-- these visors and you're not going to see anything else anymore. This is the kid you want. I don't care what anybody else says. And I've had cases like that where they've-- they've decided this is the guy. The evidence is not good, but give us time, the evidence will-- will prove that it was him. RATHER (VOICE OVER) REYNA, WHOSE PREVIOUS INVESTIGATIONS HAVE LED TO SEVERAL EXONERATIONS OF PRISONERS ON DEATH ROW, BELIEVES POLICE AT THE TIME FAILED TO FULLY INVESTIGATE OTHER SUSPECTS - INCLUDING THE MAN RECENTLY NAMED BY DAVID GARZA. REYNA They had another person, Ramiro Reyes, who initially was a suspect himself. Now, when they questioned him, the police, he told them, "I will tell you, this is what Ruben Cantu told me." RATHER(VOICE OVER) REYES, A FRIEND OF BOTH CANTU AND GARZA, IS THE PERSON GARZA NOW ALLEGES WAS HIS ACCOMPLICE THAT NIGHT. FOR RICHARD REYNA, THE FACE OF HIS INVESTIGATION BEGAN TO CHANGE WHEN HE TALKED TO JUAN MORENO. REYNA I said, ‘Well, how is it? How did, you know, Ruben Cantu's name?’ He says: "I didn't.” ‘But the police say in their report that you knew it.’ He says: "I don't care what they say. I didn't know Ruben's name." ‘Okay. But you went to the court to the trial and you pointed him out. You pointed him out as the person that shot you.’ He says: “I did that only because the police told me he would be sittin' there. That they had the right person.” RATHER (VOICE OVER) WE TRACKED DOWN JUAN MORENO IN SAN ANTONIO WHERE HE IS STILL DOING CONSTRUCTION. MORENO, WHO CONTINUES TO SUFFER FROM INJURIES HE SUSTAINED IN THE 1984 SHOOTING, EXPLAINED TO US THE PRESSURE HE FELT WHEN QUESTIONED BY POLICE. MORENO (TRANSLATED FROM SPANISH) When the police would come to interview me, at that time, I was sick because of the treatment and pills that I was taking and all of that and I just couldn't, just couldn't identify someone. I felt nervous for all the things that happened to me. RATHER (VOICE OVER) DURING A RECENT REEXAMINATION OF THE CASE BY THE BEXAR COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, JUAN MORENO TOLD INVESTIGATORS THAT HE ONLY IDENTIFIED CANTU AFTER POLICE TOLD HIM THEY HAD CAUGHT THE MAN WHO SHOT HIM. DESPITE MORENO'S NEW ADMISSIONS - AND THOSE OF DAVID GARZA - A REPORT RELEASED THIS SUMMER BY DISTRICT ATTORNEY SUSAN REED CONCLUDED THAT MORENO AND GARZA CANNOT BE BELIEVED. BUT THAT REPORT HAS AROUSED ITS OWN CONTROVERSY, INCLUDING ACCUSATIONS OF CONFLICT OF INTEREST. AS A DISTRICT COURT JUDGE IN 1988, REED DENIED AN APPEAL BY CANTU AND LATER SET HIS EXECUTION DATE. SUSAN REED SAYS SHE DOES NOT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH HOW POLICE SECURED MORENO'S TESTIMONY. RATHER Well, madam district attorney-- as an outsider, a reasonable person might say that the police just kept after him-- --until he finally figured out what the police wanted. SUSAN REED, DISTRICT ATTORNEY Well— RATHER —and he gave them when they wanted? REED Right. RATHER I want you to address that. REED Well, you know, the police-- now, here they have a young man who's in a bar who shoots someone, who's a suspect. So he's-- they got to address that issue of Ruben Cantu. And being dangerous. RATHER Because he shot an off-duty police officer? REED I mean, you know, he shot somebody in a bar. RATHER Now, police officers Ewell and de la Luz had a history of disciplinary problems within the San Antonio police department, correct? REED Yes. RATHER That included previous instances of faulty identification of suspects. RED Uh-huh, that happened, I believe in the '70s. RATHER Now, do you have a problem with that-- in the context of the case, of whether Cantu was guilty or not? And what-- they got the right man? REED Well, in a perfect world, I would like to have officers who don't get into any kind of disciplinary issues. It's-- unfortunately, not every case is presented to me that way. RATHER Okay, but here's the question. Has your reexamination called the judgment of officers Ewell and de la Luz into question at all? REED Perhaps to the extent of-- it would have been cleaner, so to speak, if you just stayed out of it. Ewell, in particular-- but I don't know that it makes me come to a different conclusion as to whether Moreno was lying and forced to lie. RATHER (VOICE OVER) SUSAN REED CONTINUES TO MAINTAIN THAT RUBEN CANTU WAS NOT WRONGFULLY EXECUTED. BUT ANDREW CARUTHERS, CANTU'S DEFENSE ATTORNEY AT THE TIME, REMAINS TROUBLED BY THE EVIDENCE THAT LED TO HIS EXECUTION. ANDREW CARUTHERS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY The only link-- the only evidence in this case attaching Ruben to this homicide was Juan Moreno's testimony. Ruben always contended that he was not guilty of the offense. And he held steadfast to the contention that he didn't do it. And he was not willing to plead to the offer of 60 years that was extended to us by the state. RATHER (VOICE OVER) AFTER SPENDING 8 YEARS ON DEATH ROW, RUBEN CANTU WAS EXECUTED BY LETHAL INJECTION AT THE STATE PENITENTIARY IN HUNTSVILLE ON AUGUST 24, 1993. HIS FRIEND DAVID GARZA INSISTS THAT THE REAL KILLER IS STILL WALKING FREE. GARZA Well, the person that was with me has been out in the world all these years, so he's not the first murderer that's been out there all these years. It won't be the last. He's one lucky sucker, that he's out there with his family, while Ruben's dead. MILLSAP For me the question is- as a lawyer, as a former prosecutor, is should- should he have been prosecuted for the death penalty? Should we have sought the death penalty? Of course, my position today is that I'm an opponent of the death penalty, after having been a lifelong, outspoken supporter of the death penalty. And I'm an opponent of it today, in part because of the Cantu case. I look back at the Cantu case, and I've studied many, many other cases around the country, and I'm convinced that we - that we have a system that we just can't count on to get it right always in death penalty cases. Cantu may be one of those cases. RATHER (VOICE OVER) AS A RESULT OF A 2005 SUPREME COURT RULING, THE DEATH PENALTY IS NO LONGER ALLOWED FOR CRIMES COMMITTED BY MINORS. IF RUBEN CANTU WAS FOUND GUILTY TODAY, HIS LIFE WOULD BE SPARED. TWO YEARS BEFORE RUBEN CANTU WENT ON TRIAL, ANOTHER TEXAS MAN, CARLOS DE LUNA, WAS SENTENCED TO DIE FOR THE KNIFE- SLAYING OF WANDA LOPEZ, A SERVICE-STATION CASHIER, IN CORPUS CHRISTI. RATHER (ON CAMERA) IT WAS WIDELY BELIEVED AT THE TIME THAT ROBBERY WAS THE MOTIVE. FORTY-FIVE MINUTES AFTER THE ATTACK ON LOPEZ, POLICE FOUND DE LUNA HIDING UNDER A TRUCK A FEW HUNDRED YARDS FROM THE CRIME SCENE. ALTHOUGH NO PHYSICAL EVIDENCE LINKED DE LUNA TO THE MURDER, HE WAS CONVICTED MAINLY ON EYEWITNESS TESTIMONY - MUCH AS CANTU WAS. AND, ONCE AGAIN, A PRINCIPAL WITNESS WOULD ADMIT YEARS LATER THAT HE WAS NEVER CERTAIN WHEN HE IDENTIFIED THE SUSPECT TO POLICE. ROSE RHOTON Carlos has always said from the beginning and to the end, that he never committed the crime, over and over and over. RATHER (VOICE OVER) AT AGE 27, CARLOS DE LUNA WROTE TO HIS SISTER, ROSE RHOTON, FROM DEATH ROW ABOUT A FRIEND NAMED CARLOS HERNANDEZ. (LETTER BY DE LUNA) "I SOMETIMES SIT HERE AT NIGHT AND I CRY TO MYSELF AND I WONDER HOW COULD I HAVE EVER LET SOME STUPID THING LIKE THIS HAPPEN BECAUSE OF A FRIEND WHO DID IT AND I KEPT MY MOUTH SHUT ABOUT IT ALL. BUT I DO NOT BLAME ANYONE BUT MY SELF..." RHOTON Even in our visits, he would ask me to go back to Corpus and try to find this person, Carlos Hernandez. But at that time, I was at a very young age, didn't know what to do, didn't know how-- didn't even know how to begin to do this. So that's what haunts me. RATHER (VOICE OVER) CARLOS DE LUNA GREW UP IN A FAMILY OF 10 CHILDREN. BY THE 7TH GRADE HE HAD DROPPED OUT OF SCHOOL WAS ARRESTED THE FIRST TIME AT AGE 15 AND WAS IN AND OUT OF CUSTODY FOR JUVENILE OFFENSES. RHOTON Carlos and I were really, really close. We were only a year apart from each other. So we grew up together, and we had a paper route together. We would get in our bicycles and-- and deliver the paper. And he was a kind person. He was generous. He just had an issue of breaking in and taking people's things. That's it. But would he hurt you and kill you? No, he couldn't do that. He was afraid to do that. He couldn’t - he didn't have it in him to do it. RATHER (VOICE OVER) REPORTERS MAURICE POSSLEY AND STEVE MILLS OF THE CHICAGO TRIBUNE BEGAN INVESTIGATING THE DE LUNA CASE TWO YEARS AGO. MILLS WAS SURPRISED TO LEARN THAT THE MAN DE LUNA REPEATEDLY IDENTIFIED AS THE PERPETRATOR - CARLOS HERNANDEZ - HAD BRAGGED TO SEVERAL PEOPLE THAT IT WAS HE WHO KILLED WANDA LOPEZ. STEVE MILLS The idea that somebody else had confessed. That somebody was going around Corpus Christi saying that he had done the crime, and very specifically saying that Carlos de Luna hadn't, was really the thing that, you know, grabs your attention. The idea that somebody is there claiming credit for something. And doing so in a way-- you know, mentioning that this other person was executed for it. RATHER (VOICE OVER) DINA YBANEZ, A ONETIME FRIEND OF CARLOS HERNANDEZ, WAS INTERVIEWED BY A PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR ABOUT WHAT HERNANDEZ TOLD HER. DINA YBANEZ Carlos was always bragging about the other one that he did at the gas station, because somebody else was arrested. He would call him his "Tocayo." RATHER (VOICE OVER) IN SPANISH, "TOCAYO" MEANS NAMESAKE. BOTH MEN WERE NAMED CARLOS: CARLOS DE LUNA, CARLOS HERNANDEZ. IN PICTURES THE TWO EVEN LOOK SIMILAR. YBANEZ He would laugh about it, because he got away with it, and somebody else was paying for something he didn't do. RATHER (VOICE OVER) TO GET A BETTER PICTURE OF THE CRIME THAT LED TO DE LUNA'S CONVICTION, WE GO BACK TO CORPUS CHRISTI. IT WAS A FRIDAY EVENING IN FEBRUARY 1983. POLICE RECEIVED A 9-1-1 CALL FROM WANDA LOPEZ, A 24-YEAR-OLD SINGLE MOTHER WORKING AT A SIGMOR- SHAMROCK CONVENIENCE STORE. LOPEZ ASKED THE DISPATCHER TO SEND AN OFFICER TO THE STORE BECAUSE THERE WAS A SUSPECT WITH A KNIFE INSIDE. 911call transcript Dispatcher: Does he have the knife pulled out? Lopez: Not yet. Dispatcher: Is it in his pocket? Lopez: Uh huh. Dispatcher: Okay, We’ll get someone over there. --sounds of attacker moving towards Lopez— Lopez: (crying, screaming) Dispatcher: 2602 South Padre. We got an armed robbery going down right now. MILLS The 9-1-1 call is chilling. You hear her desperation. Her wanting to help the operator by trying to give some information, but her fear of alerting whosever in the store that she's on the phone with the police, you sense that she's cornered in a way. RATHER (VOICE OVER) OUTSIDE, A MAN WHO HAD STOPPED TO BUY GAS - KEVAN BAKER - SAW A STRUGGLE GOING ON INSIDE THE STORE. WHEN BAKER WALKED TO THE DOOR, HE WAS MET BY LOPEZ'S ATTACKER, WHO WARNED HIM, "DON'T MESS WITH ME. I'VE GOT A GUN." AS THE ATTACKER TOOK OFF, WANDA LOPEZ STUMBLED OUTSIDE BLEEDING AND CRYING FOR HELP. DE LUNA'S VERSION OF EVENTS WAS PIECED TOGETHER FROM TRIAL TESTIMONY AND POLICE REPORTS BY REPORTER MAURICE POSSLEY. POSSLEY The story was: we were looking for a ride. I saw this guy, Carlos Hernandez. He said we can catch a ride up at Wolfie's. Which was this bar up the street which was right across the street from the station where Wanda worked. RATHER (VOICE OVER) DE LUNA RELATED THE SAME STORY TO HIS SISTER ROSE WHEN SHE VISITED HIM IN JAIL. RHOTON He told me that Carlos Hernandez was a guy that he just met up that day with. And they were drinking and smoking. They had ran out of his cigarettes. This is what my brother told me. They ran out of cigarettes. Carlos Hernandez went to the Shamrock gas station to buy the cigarettes. POSSLEY He's there for a short period of time. Where's his buddy, Hernandez? This guy. He look-- goes outside and sees the attack through the window. And he-- just out on parole-- he'd only been free a few weeks-- he does what I think a lot of people would, in that circumstance, do: "I'm gonna vamoose and get outta here." RHOTON He's not supposed to be out after a certain period of time. I don't know what that time is, but he knew that he wasn't supposed to be there. RATHER (VOICE OVER) PEZO CHAVEZ, A PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR, WAS SENT TO CORPUS CHRISTI BY A COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY LAW PROFESSOR WHOSE RESEARCH SUGGESTED DE LUNA MAY HAVE BEEN INNOCENT. PEZO CHAVEZ, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR I try to put myself in Carlos de Luna's shoes and see what he was able to see, as he testified at trial. He was at approximately this spot looking over at the Sigmor, Shamrock service station. And as you can see the distance isn't very far. And according to Carlos de Luna he saw Carlos Hernandez inside having an altercation with Wanda Lopez. RATHER (VOICE OVER) BY THE TIME POLICE ARRIVED AT THE CONVENIENCE STORE, IT WAS TOO LATE TO SAVE WANDA LOPEZ. SHE DIED FROM HER KNIFE WOUNDS. BUT INSIDE THE STORE POLICE FOUND AN ARRAY OF EVIDENCE. POSSLEY There was blood on money on the floor. The knife was actually found there-- on the floor. There was blood on the counter. She left bloody footprints-- from staggering out of the station and during the struggle with her attacker who was trying to drag her into a storage room, according to the witness who watched this. CHAVEZ He grabbed her hair. It was violent. Pulled down on her, dragged her. Blood that I've seen from photographs, back when the police took it. There was blood all over that place. It was a violent, violent place. POSSLEY When you look at the photos of the crime scene and you hear the description given by the witness who saw Wanda Lopez in this close-quarters struggle with her attacker, it's almost inconceivable that that attacker did not wind up with some blood on him. RATHER (VOICE OVER) DE LUNA DID NOT GET FAR FROM THE CRIME SCENE. CHAVEZ So he took off running in this direction. Ran down the street. Crossed over a couple of backyards. And landed approximately 250 yards from this location underneath a vehicle where police found him. RATHER (VOICE OVER) POLICE QUICKLY HANDCUFFED HIM AND TOOK HIM BACK TO THE GAS STATION. CHAVEZ When they did find Carlos de Luna, he didn't have any blood on him whatsoever, although he didn't have his shirt and he didn't have his shoes on. That he did not have. But he did have his pants on. And there was no evidence of blood on his pants. And by that particular scene, there would have been blood all over everyone. POSSLEY The blood evidence that was gathered in this case is really not-- it was-- it was not gathered, was part of the problem. There was blood all over the station. But there was virtually no collection of any samples there to determine if it was Wanda Lopez' or her attacker. RATHER (VOICE OVER) ONE CRIME SCENE PHOTO SHOWS THE LEAD HOMICIDE DETECTIVE BEHIND THE COUNTER, WITH VALUABLE EVIDENCE UNDER HER FEET. CHAVEZ Did they match any fingerprints to the knife? No. Not that I know of. Back then, there wasn't any DNA tests being done. So they didn't have any of that. What they basically had were two eyewitnesses, is what they had. RATHER (VOICE OVER) AT THE CRIME SCENE, POLICE TOOK KEVAN BAKER AND ANOTHER EYEWITNESS SEPARATELY TO A CAR WHERE CARLOS DE LUNA WAS BEING HELD IN THE BACK SEAT. AFTER A FLASHLIGHT BEAM WAS BRIEFLY TRAINED ON DE LUNA'S FACE IN THE DARK, BAKER IDENTIFIED DE LUNA AS THE MAN HE HAD SEEN ATTACKING WANDA LOPEZ. POSSLEY The police investigation of this case essentially stopped within seconds after Carlos de Luna was identified in the back of a police car when he was brought to the station after he was arrested underneath a pickup truck. The train left the station. RATHER (VOICE OVER) ACCORDING TO DINA YBANEZ, CARLOS HERNANDEZ BOASTED TO HER ABOUT HOW HE HAD NEVER GOTTEN CAUGHT THAT NIGHT. LATER, YBANEZ HERSELF BECAME ONE OF HIS KNIFING VICTIMS. YBANEZ See? That's what he did to me I think he said he was just standing on a corner, looking at everything until they took Carlos de Luna in. So he was around there. He never left the scene, he was just making sure they weren't going to get him. He left after that, with a big smile on his face. RATHER (VOICE OVER) MORE THAN TWO DECADES LATER, REPORTERS POSSLEY AND MILLS INTERVIEWED KEVAN BAKER, THE EYEWITNESS WHO CAME FACE TO FACE WITH WANDA LOPEZ' ASSAILANT IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE ATTACK. MILLS What's interesting about Kevan Baker, though, is that when we talked to him years and years later, he says he was always unsure. He's still unsure. And that the reason he identified de Luna was because the police had brought him in the back of the squad car, and he assumed that they had gotten the right guy. RATHER (VOICE OVER) BAKER EXPRESSED THE SAME UNCERTAINTY IN A RECORDED INTERVIEW WITH A PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR. KEVAN BAKER It was like, one of the officers come up to me and asked me, is this the gentleman in the back seat of the car, and like I said, I was about 70% positive. POSSLEY Kevan-- said that when they brought him back-- an officer said that they had found him hiding underneath a pickup truck. So the-- that taint was there, as well. Because the suggestion is, this wa-- why would someone be hiding? RATHER (VOICE OVER) FROM THE NIGHT OF HIS ARREST UNTIL HE WAS TRIED FOR CAPITAL MURDER, CARLOS DE LUNA CONTINUED TO MAINTAIN HE WAS INNOCENT. CHAVEZ At his trial he claims that it was someone else that did it. That being a person by the name of Carlos Hernandez. Nobody believed Carlos de Luna when he hit the stand because he tried himself to create an alibi. And that alibi did not exist. POSSLEY Carlos said he was at a skating rink. And that he had talked to these two sisters. And one of the things the prosecution did at trial, was bring in one of the sisters who said - "Uh, that didn't happen. We weren't - my sister and I weren't with Carlos de Luna at any skating rink." And then, from that lie, you just start unraveling all the rest of his story. RATHER (VOICE OVER) AT THE TIME OF THE MURDER DE LUNA WAS ON PAROLE, SERVING A TWO-YEAR SENTENCE FOR AGGRAVATED RAPE AND DRIVING A STOLEN VEHICLE - CHARGES TO WHICH HE PLEADED NO CONTEST. POSSLEY Carlos de Luna, as-- you find in many cases, was not an altar boy. He was a paint sniffer. A glue sniffer. He was a-- a thief. This was a kid that was sort of on the path to nowhereville. But he didn't have the kind of background that suggested that he would randomly walk into a gas station, and during a-- a conversation with a clerk, stab her to death. CHAVEZ Now, you go to Carlos Hernandez. A majority of his crimes involved a knife, a buck knife. And you talk to people that knew Carlos Hernandez, i.e. friends-- brother-in-laws, people that hung around him. They described him as using his buck knife. And he could flip it out and do all kinds of things with it just in the blink of an eye. POSSLEY Assembling Carlos Hernandez' life through his police records is- incredibly revealing itself. When you find out that this was a guy who, not long after this killing, is arrested for what? Having a knife, standing outside a gas station, in Corpus Christi. A man with a history of knife crimes. Knife crimes against women. MILLS Hernandez also boasted about killing a woman named Dahlia Sauceda. He had gone drinking with her. And-- she was found in her van-- dead, with her baby still in the car. And Hernandez admitted having sex with her that night. But said he didn't kill her. The police, to this day, believe that he did. YBANEZ He was always bragging about the things that he did, like stabbing people. He talked about two girls that he --did. One of them was Dahlia. I don't know her last name or anything, but he was bragging about the way he stabbed her and he was going to, or, he put an x on her back. And that he had - Carlos killed her in front of her little girl. RATHER (VOICE OVER) BOTH THE LEAD HOMICIDE DETECTIVE IN THE DE LUNA CASE AND A CO- PROSECUTOR WERE WELL-ACQUAINTED WITH CARLOS HERNANDEZ AND HIS HISTORY OF KNIFE CRIMES AGAINST WOMEN. YET DE LUNA'S CLAIMS ABOUT HERNANDEZ WERE NEVER GIVEN SERIOUS CONSIDERATION. POSSLEY In the closing arguments, the prosecutor, Steve Schiwetz, gets up and says, "Carlos Hernandez. He's a phantom. Doesn't exist." In fact, as numerous people told us, Carlos Hernandez was well- known in Corpus Christi, for all these bad things that he had done. And the co-prosecutor in Carlos de Luna's trial had been the lead prosecutor just a couple of years earlier, when Carlos Hernandez became the lead suspect in the murder of Dahlia Sauceda. So you have this situation where one prosecutor says he's a phantom. And the other prosecutor knows full well who he is. And lets him do that. And, take it away to the jury. And they did. Away went Carlos de Luna. RATHER (VOICE OVER) NEITHER STEVE SCHIWETZ, THE PROSECUTOR IN THE DE LUNA CASE, NOR KEN BOTARY, THE CO- PROSECUTOR, WOULD AGREE TO AN ON-CAMERA INTERVIEW. BUT, ACCORDING TO SCHIWETZ, NONE OF HIS LAW ENFORCEMENT COLLEAGUES EVER TOLD HIM ABOUT CARLOS HERNANDEZ. RHOTON He kept mentioning over and over in our visits, on his letters, that he never committed this crime, and if somebody would just take the time and go back and investigate Carlos Hernandez. And that's the biggest haunting that I carry with me all the time, even when they executed him. He told me that he did not commit this crime. RATHER (VOICE OVER) CARLOS HERNANDEZ HIMSELF WILL NEVER UNRAVEL THE TRUTH OF WANDA LOPEZ' MURDER. HERNANDEZ, A FELON WITH A LONG RECORD, DIED IN PRISON IN 1999. WHEN CARLOS DE LUNA'S FINAL APPEALS WERE REJECTED, THE JUDGE WROTE: "…THERE IS SUBSTANTIAL DOUBT THAT CARLOS HERNANDEZ EVEN EXISTED." WITH THAT DECISION DE LUNA'S FATE WAS SEALED. HE SPENT HIS FINAL HOURS ON DEATH ROW WITH HIS SISTER ROSE AND HER HUSBAND - IN A CORNER OF THE HUNTSVILLE PRISON KNOWN AS "THE WALLS." CARLOS DELUNA (FROM INTERVIEW BEFORE EXECUTION) Maybe one day the truth will come out and I’m hoping it will… RHOTON I could see it in his eyes when we left. He was afraid. He was afraid of what was gonna happen. As I stood up, he reached over and hugged me. And he said, "I'm so sorry to put you through all this." and I wanted to be strong and I said, "Oh, you're not gonna be executed. We'll visit later." We never got to visit. He got executed that night. RATHER (VOICE OVER) SEVENTEEN YEARS AFTER CARLOS DE LUNA DIED BY LETHAL INJECTION, QUESTIONS SURROUNDING HIS CASE CONTINUE TO ECHO. BOTH DE LUNA AND RUBEN CANTU WERE CONVICTED AND EXECUTED IN THE ABSENCE OF PHYSICAL EVIDENCE, ON THE BASIS OF EYEWITNESS TESTIMONY THAT TODAY APPEARS, TO MANY, DOUBTFUL. HAILING A JET PLANE: RATHER (VOICE OVER) THE SUMMER TRAVEL SEASON IS WINDING DOWN AND IT'S BEEN MONTHS OF LONG LINES AT AIRPORTS CROWDED AIRPLANES WITH NO EMPTY SEATS AND BELT TIGHTENING THAT MAKES GETTING A BOTTLE OF WATER A CHALLENGE. RATHER (ON CAMERA) SO MUCH FOR THE ROMANCE OF FLYING. FOR MANY, IT'S MORE LIKE A NIGHTMARE. NOW SUPPOSE JUST SUPPOSE, YOU COULD HAIL A JET PLANE MUCH LIKE YOU WOULD A TAXI? AND, WHAT IF YOU COULD FLY THAT PLANE OR HAVE SOMEONE FLY IT INTO ONE OF THE THOUSANDS OF SMALL AIRPORTS ACROSS THE COUNTRY NEARER TO WHERE YOU HAVE TO DO BUSINESS OR VISIT RELATIVES? SOUND LIKE FANTASY? PERHAPS NOT. AIR TAXI SERVICES, USING NEW, SMALLER, FUEL EFFICIENT JETS ARE POISED TO TAKE OFF. PROPONENTS SAY WE ARE ON THE VERGE OF AN AVIATION REVOLUTION. BUT SOME CRITICS SEE STORM CLOUDS AHEAD AND WORRY THE REVOLUTION IS NOT WITHOUT PERIL. RATHER (VOICE OVER) WHAT COULD MORE SIMPLE THAN HAILING A TAXI CAB? NOW WHAT IF YOU WANT GO A COUPLE HUNDRED MILES INSTEAD OF A COUPLE OF BLOCKS. SOME SAY THE AGE OF THE MINI JET HAS ARRIVED. AND THESE TINY PLANES ARE USHERING IN THE JET POWERED AIR TAXI. VERN RABURN Well, a lot of people would say that this is very similar to what Henry Ford did. One of his descendents, Edsel Ford, seems to think that. He keeps calling me “the Henry Ford of aviation.” RATHER (VOICE OVER) VERN RABURN FOUNDED ECLIPSE AVIATION IN ALBUQUERQUE, NEW MEXICO WHETHER CALLING HIM THE HENRY FORD OF AVIATION IS AN ACT OF HYPERBOLE OR NOT, THE FACT IS RABURN USED FORD'S ASSEMBLY LINE PRODUCTION OF THE MODEL T AT THE TURN OF THE 20TH CENTURY AS AN INSPIRATION FOR HIS PRODUCTION OF CUTTING EDGE AIRPLANES AT THE BEGINNING OF THE 21ST CENTURY. WHEN WE TOURED HIS 400 THOUSAND PLUS SQUARE FOOT FACTORY, WE SAW 50 VERY LIGHT JETS IN PRODUCTION. RATHER Now you know your history. There was a time in the automobile business when Henry Ford said: "I wanna build a car that's not for the elite. I wanna build a car that every man can dream of owning.” RABURN Henry re-thought the production paradigm. Obviously he introduced mass production. But more than mass production, he introduced a lot of concepts in supply chain management. He introduced a lot of concepts in data management. We've done the same thing in aviation. We're trying to do more for less and if we can do more for less than the whole idea is that we'll revitalize existing markets, we'll create whole new markets and we'll see growth. RATHER And what’s different about your eclipse aircraft? RABURN Well most obvious one is it's cheap! I mean, now I'm not supposed to say cheap, I should say inexpensive but it's a very high quality aircraft where we've set new standards in reliability, new standards in maintenance for this class of aircraft. But it's also about half the price of the nearest competitor. And so you get a lot of airplane for not much money. RATHER (VOICE OVER) VERY LIGHT JETS ARE NOT ONLY LESS EXPENSIVE, BUT THEY GET THEIR NAME BECAUSE, SIMPLY PUT, THEY WEIGH A LOT LESS THAN THE MAMMOTH AIRLINERS OR THE SMALL BUSINESS JETS NOW FLYING. THE ECLIPSE SEATS SIX INCLUDING TWO PILOTS, HAS A RESPECTABLE RANGE OF 14 HUNDRED MILES AND CAN REACH SPEEDS OF MORE THAN 400 MILES AN HOUR. RATHER Well, some analysts say that the development of these light jets is revolutionary. Do you consider it so? RABURN The debate of what's revolutionary and what is evolutionary has raged eternal. And, it will always go on. I think there are definitely revolutionary elements of this. RATHER Where are we and what's happening here? RABURN Well, this is our final assembly facility and so these are where the aircraft come down the line after coming to this facility from our primary assembly. RATHER Now this is a made in USA aircraft, but not all the components come from here? RABURN The engine's made by Pratt & Whitney in Montreal, Canada. The landing gear is made in Milan, Italy. The nose section's made in Santiago, Chile. But, what we did is, we're the designers of the aircraft. All of the engineering was done here. So the high value work was done here. And then we went out and found the best vendors in the world. RATHER If I ordered an aircraft today I'm not, I can't afford it RABURN For you, a special deal! RATHER We'll talk later. (chuckles) But, if you - if I'm ordering an aircraft today, how many airplanes ahead of me are already sold? RABURN Mmmmm round number? About 2,000. And so, if you ordered an airplane today, it would be sometime in mid-late second quarter 2009. So about two plus years from now. RATHER Well, it's a good looking aircraft even if you don't have it all dressed up yet. RABURN (laughs) There's an old adage in aviation: if it looks good, it'll fly good. Some airplanes look really good on the ground other airplanes look really good in the air and this is one of those ones I think personally looks a little bit better in the air. Which is just another way of saying, it was meant to fly. RATHER Well, I intend to see what it looks like in the air from the inside. RABURN We're gonna get you up in an airplane here real shortly. PILOT Okay sir, ready to go? RATHER Ready to go! It's much roomier than I thought and much quieter than I thought. PILOT Yeah. I mean it's like - it's kinda like more of a car than it is, you know, a gulf stream or some sort of more exotic corporate jet. Alright, would you like to give it a shot, Dan? RATHER Fly around? Sure! PILOT Sidestick works exactly the same. You've probably been in some Navy airplanes this is trim. I'll help you out with that but, uh, you've got the airplane, you go ahead and fly and we'll just - you can go wherever you want. RATHER Well, let's see harder to keep on an even keel than I would've…. PILOT That's all right. RATHER Let's see we wanna go up. PILOT As you can see, it's pretty simple! RATHER It is pretty simple although I have a feeling the landing might be a little something else. PILOT I'll show you how that is. RATHER The promise of very light jets is that they may open some 10 thousand smaller airports to jet travel most for the very first time. RATHER (VOICE OVER) BECAUSE THE ECLIPSE AND OTHER VERY LIGHT JETS ARE SO LIGHT, THEY CAN TAKE OFF AND LAND AT MUCH SLOWER SPEEDS THAN LARGER PLANES MEANING THEY CAN USE MUCH SHORTER RUNWAYS. RABURN These airplanes aren't going to operate at Hartsfield. They're not going to operate at DFW. They'll operate at Peachtree to Cobb or Charlie Brown or Addison or all the other little airports and around all the nations' major cities, there's lots and lots and lots of little airports. Today what we find is most people on a trip of under 400 miles are driving so that's really the opportunity as the town car of the air. RATHER (VOICE OVER) THIS ECLIPSE JET IS DECKED OUT IN THE COLORS OF DAYJET A FLORIDA BASED COMPANY PIONEERING THE IDEA OF TURNING THESE LITTLE JETS INTO AIR TAXIS. ED IACOBUCCI, DAY JET We have a five year order with Eclipse ...that's over a thousand aircraft. RATHER (VOICE OVER) ED IACOBUCCI OWNS DAY JET AND, YOU HEARD HIM RIGHT, HE PLANS TO BUY OVER A THOUSAND MINI JETS, A BIGGER FLEET THAN MANY LARGE AIRLINES. IACOBUCCI What we're doing is some people call air taxi it's really on-demand commercial transportation. It's an on demand service at commercial scale. It's being able to build your own schedule for when you go want to go from A to B—but do it in a way that we're sharing the airplane as you do with commercial airliners on a seat by seat basis. RATHER (VOICE OVER) AND THAT IS THE KEY TO THE AIR TAXI CONCEPT. WHEN A COMPANY CHARTERS A BUSINESS JET, IT RENTS THE ENTIRE AIRCRAFT USUALLY FOR AN ENTIRE DAY, EVEN IF THE PLANE SPENDS MUCH OF ITS TIME ON THE GROUND. IACOBUCCI I think it's a huge deal if you live in communities that don't have the commercial support. And, that's most of the small communities in the United States. Frankly, the transportation system that we have today is better oriented towards serving the needs of people that live in communities that have a lot of volume going between them. RATHER (VOICE OVER) IACOBUCCI SAYS THE PRICES WILL RANGE FROM ABOUT $300 TO $1200 ONE WAY DEPENDING ON WHEN YOU BOOKED, YOUR FLEXIBILITY AND WHERE YOU'RE GOING. IACOBUCCI We really do know who our customers are gonna be. They are not the CEOs and COOs and CFOs. Those guys, they want a charter chartered today. And they charter big iron and they know how to do that and they like that. Our customers, the middle managers, professional services, attorneys, engineers, service and support people, sales, regional sales managers, operations managers, that have the need to go between smaller cities and don't have a real easy way to do that today. RATHER (VOICE OVER) THE IDEA OF THOUSANDS OF VERY LIGHT JETS MIXED IN WITH JUMBO JETS CRISS-CROSSING THE SKIES BEGS SOME SERIOUS QUESTIONS. MOST IMPORTANTLY, WHAT IT MEANS FOR AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS AND OUR CROWDED SKIES. PATRICK FORREY, IS PRESIDENT OF THE NATIONAL AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLER'S ASSOCIATION. PATRICK FORREY, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLER’S ASSOCIATION Well, it's added capacity for one thing - any time you get further east of this country and on the east coast from all the way up from Maine to Miami, over to Chicago, to Atlanta, you have a very high capacity airspace system where it's very tough to get other aircraft into that system. If we're talking about major taxi- air taxi services -- you're talking an influx of thousands more aircraft into that very overstressed and saturated airspace. RATHER (VOICE OVER) ADVOCATES OF VERY LIGHT JETS ARGUE THAT MOST OF THEM WILL BE FLYING INTO SMALLER AIRPORTS LEAVING THE LARGER AIRPORTS TO THE BIG GUYS. AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS AGREE THIS COULD HELP EASE CONGESTION AROUND MAJOR AIRPORTS BUT THAT MAY NOT BE GOOD ENOUGH. FORREY Although they're jets and they go fast - and I think they can probably keep up with most of the major carriers - they could still pose a problem when they're transitioning on these shorter hauls up and down through the airspace through the higher flight level stratums. That is where we have our biggest difficulties and most complexities in the airspace system is the transitioning up and down through the airspace through other aircraft y'know traversing the airspace so that kinda stuff adds to the complexity, it adds to the capacity and adds to the, you know, the stress of what we are trying to do out there to keep those airplanes separated. RABURN In terms of the airspace, we have two sets of issues here: the first one is, once you get up into the higher altitudes, and for anybody who flies a lot whether as a pilot or a passenger, you know I sorta ask the first question, "How often do you see other airplanes up there?" The answer is… RATHER Not often? RABURN Not often, there's a lot of sky. It's a very, very, very big sky. RATHER (VOICE OVER) FOR THOSE LIKE ECLIPSE'S VERN RABURN, WHO LOOK TO THE MINI JETS AS THE DAWN OF A NEW ERA IN AVIATION, THE NAY-SAYERS ARE JUST AFRAID TO DREAM BIG. RABURN Right now, midday, there's probably six thousand, sixty- five hundred airplanes in total over all of the United States. Think about the number of cars on the freeway in New York or Los Angeles at any given moment. That tells you how much space there really is. But we can increase that with the same levels of safety and arguably improve safety - uh by up to as many as twenty to thirty thousand aircraft. There's a technology solution to any potential crowding in the sky. The crowding on the ground isn't really an issue because we're going to use the airports that aren't being used today. RATHER (VOICE OVER) WE RETURN TONIGHT WITH SOME FINAL THOUGHTS ON THE STORIES THAT BEGAN OUR BROADCAST, RAISING QUESTIONS ABOUT THE POTENTIAL FALLIBILITY AND THE FINALITY OF CAPITAL PUNISHMENT. RATHER (ON CAMERA) BEYOND THE ONGOING DEBATE OVER WHETHER THE DEATH PENALTY CONSTITUTES WHAT THE BILL OF RIGHTS TERMS CRUEL AND UNUSUAL PUNISHMENT, RECENT YEARS HAVE SEEN EVEN STAUNCH SUPPORTERS OF CAPITAL PUNISHMENT QUESTIONING JUST HOW SURE WE CAN BE THAT THOSE EXECUTED ARE INDEED GUILTY OF THE CRIMES FOR WHICH THEY HAVE BEEN CONVICTED. THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE STRONGLY THAT THERE IS A CASE FOR THE DEATH PENALTY, BUT PERHAPS THOSE ON BOTH SIDES OF THE ARGUMENT CAN AGREE THAT THIS IS A CORE QUESTION: WHERE IS THE THRESHOLD OF REASONABLE DOUBT, WHEN A "GUILTY" VERDICT MEANS A PERSON'S LIFE? THAT'S A QUESTION THAT STRIKES AT THE HEART OF OUR NOTIONS OF JUSTICE. FOR HDNET, FROM AUSTIN, TX, DAN RATHER REPORTING. GOOD NIGHT. |
